I'm not interested in denying rights or identities. I'm only raising concerns about whether some trans identities may be transitory. If you know any parent of an adolescent today, you are likely familiar with how common it is for today's teens to adopt different names and pronouns, often on a temporary basis. These kids are quite familiar with the idea that some people have brains and bodies that are a mismatch, and that gender is fluid. Honestly, it is a confusing time to be a teen, and I feel for them. But that's a topic for another day. The social contagion theory of ROGD is my focus here, and we ignore this phenomenon at our own risk. You know teens are impressionable, easily influenced, and have identities in flux. That is why gender affirming care is a questionable practice, because it assumes that kids "know themselves" and what they want, when in fact we all know that's not true. Hormones and surgeries may be the right option for a small number of gender dysphoric patients, but we absolutely must avoid sending teens down a lifelong path of medical care if it can be avoided.
We should learn from the countries in Europe that are now taking a more cautious approach to gender care, because I suspect this is where the US is headed.
What broad consensus on gender affirming care? Look what's happening in Europe. Why did the Tavistock Clinic close? You don't think social contagion is a factor in the rise of ROGD? (Or at least not a significant one?) The evidence is there, if you care to see it.
I have my hunches, but am not in a position to say whether gender affirming care works. So I think we need to listen to the whistleblowers --and I'll bet there will be more of them soon.
Also, parents ARE caring adults (with a few exceptions, of course), and they need to be part of the conversation when a teen presents as trans or nonbinary. No teachers, social workers or other "caring" adults should keep this information from the parents.
I don't know what more to say, but I just read this excellent, well-written story on PITT, and to me it serves as a perfect example of what's going wrong with our treatment of gender dysphoria. Something is amiss, and there are some of us who see what's happening and others who don't -- yet.
Superficial or not, it's a lot more pleasant than many conversations I've had. Usually, no one listens to other perspectives at all. This person (he or she? they?) at least has looked at links I've provided and offered an opinion on them.
Thank you. I wish more online conversations were this constructive. They usually devolve into a hate-spewing disaster leaving every participant angry and frustrated. I've been there!
The question is whether this kind of story really is an outlier. Gender affirming care is problematic because it funnels a child down a path that leads to hormones and surgeries. Look up a description of this model of care, and it explicitly states that parents should affirm the child -- accepting new name, pronouns and the full identity-- or else. I've read story after story after story on PITT written by parents who have experienced this phenomenon. I don't personally know how common it is, but I do know the number of teens who identify as trans is shockingly high. Given that this is a rare disorder (it was once known as a disorder --in my DSM4), there should not be this many kids thinking they are trans. That is my concern.
Well, you're certainly more knowledgeable than this lay person. I gather you work with trans people in some capacity or another, because you come across as an insider. Nothing wrong with that, of course, and your knowledge is impressive. But based on this conversation, I've concluded you are invested in upholding the status quo. In other words, you're willing to entertain the possibility that some kids do get less than the best care, but you believe this is the occasional, "anecdotal" problem that can be fixed with some minor tweaking. I think we're much more likely to see an overhaul of gender affirming care, maybe not soon, but eventually.
I'm not interested in denying rights or identities. I'm only raising concerns about whether some trans identities may be transitory. If you know any parent of an adolescent today, you are likely familiar with how common it is for today's teens to adopt different names and pronouns, often on a temporary basis. These kids are quite familiar with the idea that some people have brains and bodies that are a mismatch, and that gender is fluid. Honestly, it is a confusing time to be a teen, and I feel for them. But that's a topic for another day. The social contagion theory of ROGD is my focus here, and we ignore this phenomenon at our own risk. You know teens are impressionable, easily influenced, and have identities in flux. That is why gender affirming care is a questionable practice, because it assumes that kids "know themselves" and what they want, when in fact we all know that's not true. Hormones and surgeries may be the right option for a small number of gender dysphoric patients, but we absolutely must avoid sending teens down a lifelong path of medical care if it can be avoided.
We should learn from the countries in Europe that are now taking a more cautious approach to gender care, because I suspect this is where the US is headed.
See: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11930-023-00358-x
What broad consensus on gender affirming care? Look what's happening in Europe. Why did the Tavistock Clinic close? You don't think social contagion is a factor in the rise of ROGD? (Or at least not a significant one?) The evidence is there, if you care to see it.
See:
https://www.pittparents.com/p/headline-when-a-quarter-of-the-class
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culture-mind-and-brain/201811/why-is-transgender-identity-the-rise-among-teens
I have my hunches, but am not in a position to say whether gender affirming care works. So I think we need to listen to the whistleblowers --and I'll bet there will be more of them soon.
See:
https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=260347&post_id=101682797&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=emai
Also, parents ARE caring adults (with a few exceptions, of course), and they need to be part of the conversation when a teen presents as trans or nonbinary. No teachers, social workers or other "caring" adults should keep this information from the parents.
THIS should not be happening:
https://www.pittparents.com/p/oregons-state-assistance-encouraged
> What broad consensus on gender affirming care?
The consensus of all the people they haven't cancelled for "transphobia".
I don't know what more to say, but I just read this excellent, well-written story on PITT, and to me it serves as a perfect example of what's going wrong with our treatment of gender dysphoria. Something is amiss, and there are some of us who see what's happening and others who don't -- yet.
https://www.pittparents.com/p/a-desistance-story?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=374402&post_id=141403202&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=25shtu&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
Don't confuse his verbosity for knowledge.
At least you're respectful.
He's superficially polite, don't confuse that with sincerity or respect.
Superficial or not, it's a lot more pleasant than many conversations I've had. Usually, no one listens to other perspectives at all. This person (he or she? they?) at least has looked at links I've provided and offered an opinion on them.
Thank you. I wish more online conversations were this constructive. They usually devolve into a hate-spewing disaster leaving every participant angry and frustrated. I've been there!
The question is whether this kind of story really is an outlier. Gender affirming care is problematic because it funnels a child down a path that leads to hormones and surgeries. Look up a description of this model of care, and it explicitly states that parents should affirm the child -- accepting new name, pronouns and the full identity-- or else. I've read story after story after story on PITT written by parents who have experienced this phenomenon. I don't personally know how common it is, but I do know the number of teens who identify as trans is shockingly high. Given that this is a rare disorder (it was once known as a disorder --in my DSM4), there should not be this many kids thinking they are trans. That is my concern.
Well, you're certainly more knowledgeable than this lay person. I gather you work with trans people in some capacity or another, because you come across as an insider. Nothing wrong with that, of course, and your knowledge is impressive. But based on this conversation, I've concluded you are invested in upholding the status quo. In other words, you're willing to entertain the possibility that some kids do get less than the best care, but you believe this is the occasional, "anecdotal" problem that can be fixed with some minor tweaking. I think we're much more likely to see an overhaul of gender affirming care, maybe not soon, but eventually.
Well psychology barely even pretends to be a science these days (https://www.experimental-history.com/p/im-so-sorry-for-psychologys-loss).
Thus I think we should stick to the system that worked well for millenia.
Especially since the people who advocate changing it are mostly coming up with ever more creative euphemism for castrating children.
> and only reversible puberty blockers
Puberty blockers are not reversible. I'd ask you to stop lying, but experience has shown you're not capable of that.
Like I said, stop lying.