I do find the whole thing tiresome. It's like listening to someone argue that the earth is flat. I do subscribe to Colin because he is doing God's work arguing with these knuckleheads so we don't have to.
None of these unusual chromosomal combinations reproduce in some different way from male or female. Everyone with Klinefelter's syndrome who has ever reproduced used their sperm to fertilize an egg, just like every other male. Women with Turner's or Triple X syndrome clearly have a female reproductive system - with ovaries, a uterus, and a vagina - that fails to mature at puberty.
Thanks Colin. Copeland seemed to agree with your opening statement which explained in simple terms why "genetic sex" is not a synonym for sex. It was odd to see him stick doggedly to this flawed definition. You can't win an argument with someone immune to reason.
This reminds me of a discussion I had on Facebook, on this very topic. One of the commenters, herself a biologist, insisted that there is hormonal sex and chromosomal sex and whatever sex, and that it's all on a spectrum anyway, and it struck me that...well, I was always taught that scientific theories tell you something about the natural world. So germ theory told us how disease is spread. Evolutionary theory told us how species develop and diverge. What the hell does sex as spectrum tell us? Activists can come up with all of the genderbread people and gender unicorns and gendersauruses they like, but at the end of the day, you need a male and a female to make a new critter, full stop. Sex as binary tells us that, while sex as a spectrum tells us...nothing. It sure fits a political ideology, though.
BTW, thanks for engaging in debate, although Copeland was insufferable. I knew it was going to be bad when he opened the discussion with a threat against "bigotry." That's a flashing neon danger sign of red.
I tried to listen to Colin's conversation with Ian but couldn't stand Ian's rudeness and condescending way of speaking. In the example Ian gave of a person who had no gonads either male or female, wouldn't that person be classified as male if they had xy chromosomes or female if they had xx chromosomes? Why would they be a third sex? I didn't really understand what Ian was saying.
Interesting at least that the conversation was about sex, not “gender”. I think the event was just classic trolling.
Perhaps 10 groups of questions come up in my head.
1. Can humans also breathe water like fish, if we share biology? Has he tested?
2. Are there any terrestrial animals which as reproducing adults can change sex? None?
3. Is he aware of any humans being born which did not have exactly one mother and one father? None?
4. Since attributes aren’t binary, is he aware of any humans with more than two and fewer than four eyes?
5. Is he aware that Seuss’s original title “One Fish, Two Fish, Red fish, Blue Fish” was refused as implausible?
6. Is he aware that it’s poor taste to compare Will Thomas’s change into Lia Thomas in the water to fish?
7. The proper collective noun for sex-changing fish is a “kettle”?
8. In certain fish, the stress of losing the alpha male on a kettle produces a new male; was he aware the stress of being held underwater has similar results in human breathing?
9. Was he aware of the existence of terrestrial animal which apparently only reproduces via a sex trinary - Bigfoot has and author, a publisher and a reader involved.
10. Does he find it in poor taste to compare the only multi-state sexually reproducing organism - plasmodium, which in the amoeba stage can form many different sex sex pairs besides a “male female” with isogametes - in poor taste to compare nonbinary people to slime balls?
Colin, Isn't it also true that birds have sex chromosomes that are labeled "Z" and "W" and that the genes on each of those chromosomes are not too analogous to mammalian "X" and "Y". In fact, I believe that two Zs in birds are males as opposed to XY for mammals.
I remember reading the Copeland back and forth on X, and I wondered just how much training has he had in basic biology. There was something off about his reponses and insistances and refusal to consider your and other's explanations. As I remember, he pretty quickly went to ad hominem insults or arguments from authority.
Well, over at Trans Widow Ute Heggen channel we have new information from the younger sister of an older dude who had the surgeries way back in 1977. She took care of their aging parents, while he visited once. Then when they both died, dude inherits his half. After detransitioning and retransitioning twice, he took the money and ran, to another surgeon.
"The first thing he did with his inheritance was get a facelift. He had a vlog about himself on Facebook with very few followers."
We have to collect data from trans widows and surviving siblings, along with parents. We are not going to get the truth for longitudinal outcomes from the psychiatrically ill who adopt an opposite sex persona.
I'm late to this party. I never heard of this Ian Copeland but he is insufferable and really not in your league intellectually. I respect your willingness to debate anybody but this guy was so far beneath you. I looked at his X feed and was shocked at how he belittles everybody's educational background yet he is so ignorant on so many topics. Really a contemptible human being and sad to see he is in the Army. Is this the kind of leaders the US Military is producing? Lord help us.
Thanks, Colin. You’re one of my favourite explainers (I’m not a scientist and I always understand you). I was struck by Copeland’s industrial-strength rudeness to you & others on Twitter. That’s just not how genuinely good faith people talk to each other, for goodness sake.
I’m also struck by the way ‘sex is on a spectrum’ seems to have embedded itself, in the US especially (I’m in the UK). A challenge is often met with accusations of bigotry.
I’ve never seen a documented case of a human with real functional testicular tissue and ovarian tissue. There are documented cases of ovaries containing testicular tissue, but no sperm are ever generated. If the Y chromosome is mutated in the developing embryo (up to full loss) without the SRY gene in all cells, you then get into varying levels of intersex. The SRY gene is the template upon which testosterone is formed, and after 9 weeks testosterone is required to direct the genital tubercules to form male genitals, and simultaneously to block female gonads and other internal reproductive organs from forming. Depending on the level of SRY function (deletion), you get a range of intersex conditions.
You can look to Wikipedia true hermaphrodite, and it will direct you to research papers.
Thank you! And good catch. Sometimes I forget to remove my first draft paragraphs as I make edits. One of the worst aspects of having my own publication is not having an editor!
Sorry to repeat the OPs question, but does X archive spaces for future viewing/ripping with yt-dlp or are we reliant on people screen recording to watch it?
Thank you for making the definition of sex more precise by citing the two distinct gametes characteristic of each sex. Although xx and xy might provide a useful definition for rational people it's not sufficient for those who'd reach for any unusual condition like variations of the xx and xy genotypes to justify their deliberately bogus arguments based on wishful thinking or fraudulent propaganda. .
It must get so old for you to be debating this all the time! Thank you for persisting!
I do find the whole thing tiresome. It's like listening to someone argue that the earth is flat. I do subscribe to Colin because he is doing God's work arguing with these knuckleheads so we don't have to.
None of these unusual chromosomal combinations reproduce in some different way from male or female. Everyone with Klinefelter's syndrome who has ever reproduced used their sperm to fertilize an egg, just like every other male. Women with Turner's or Triple X syndrome clearly have a female reproductive system - with ovaries, a uterus, and a vagina - that fails to mature at puberty.
Thanks Colin. Copeland seemed to agree with your opening statement which explained in simple terms why "genetic sex" is not a synonym for sex. It was odd to see him stick doggedly to this flawed definition. You can't win an argument with someone immune to reason.
Thanks Colin, keep the good work!
Ooh, this is so great, with the turtles!
This reminds me of a discussion I had on Facebook, on this very topic. One of the commenters, herself a biologist, insisted that there is hormonal sex and chromosomal sex and whatever sex, and that it's all on a spectrum anyway, and it struck me that...well, I was always taught that scientific theories tell you something about the natural world. So germ theory told us how disease is spread. Evolutionary theory told us how species develop and diverge. What the hell does sex as spectrum tell us? Activists can come up with all of the genderbread people and gender unicorns and gendersauruses they like, but at the end of the day, you need a male and a female to make a new critter, full stop. Sex as binary tells us that, while sex as a spectrum tells us...nothing. It sure fits a political ideology, though.
BTW, thanks for engaging in debate, although Copeland was insufferable. I knew it was going to be bad when he opened the discussion with a threat against "bigotry." That's a flashing neon danger sign of red.
I tried to listen to Colin's conversation with Ian but couldn't stand Ian's rudeness and condescending way of speaking. In the example Ian gave of a person who had no gonads either male or female, wouldn't that person be classified as male if they had xy chromosomes or female if they had xx chromosomes? Why would they be a third sex? I didn't really understand what Ian was saying.
A body plan that can't sexually reproduce can't be a sex, by definition.
Interesting at least that the conversation was about sex, not “gender”. I think the event was just classic trolling.
Perhaps 10 groups of questions come up in my head.
1. Can humans also breathe water like fish, if we share biology? Has he tested?
2. Are there any terrestrial animals which as reproducing adults can change sex? None?
3. Is he aware of any humans being born which did not have exactly one mother and one father? None?
4. Since attributes aren’t binary, is he aware of any humans with more than two and fewer than four eyes?
5. Is he aware that Seuss’s original title “One Fish, Two Fish, Red fish, Blue Fish” was refused as implausible?
6. Is he aware that it’s poor taste to compare Will Thomas’s change into Lia Thomas in the water to fish?
7. The proper collective noun for sex-changing fish is a “kettle”?
8. In certain fish, the stress of losing the alpha male on a kettle produces a new male; was he aware the stress of being held underwater has similar results in human breathing?
9. Was he aware of the existence of terrestrial animal which apparently only reproduces via a sex trinary - Bigfoot has and author, a publisher and a reader involved.
10. Does he find it in poor taste to compare the only multi-state sexually reproducing organism - plasmodium, which in the amoeba stage can form many different sex sex pairs besides a “male female” with isogametes - in poor taste to compare nonbinary people to slime balls?
Colin, Isn't it also true that birds have sex chromosomes that are labeled "Z" and "W" and that the genes on each of those chromosomes are not too analogous to mammalian "X" and "Y". In fact, I believe that two Zs in birds are males as opposed to XY for mammals.
I remember reading the Copeland back and forth on X, and I wondered just how much training has he had in basic biology. There was something off about his reponses and insistances and refusal to consider your and other's explanations. As I remember, he pretty quickly went to ad hominem insults or arguments from authority.
Well, over at Trans Widow Ute Heggen channel we have new information from the younger sister of an older dude who had the surgeries way back in 1977. She took care of their aging parents, while he visited once. Then when they both died, dude inherits his half. After detransitioning and retransitioning twice, he took the money and ran, to another surgeon.
"The first thing he did with his inheritance was get a facelift. He had a vlog about himself on Facebook with very few followers."
We have to collect data from trans widows and surviving siblings, along with parents. We are not going to get the truth for longitudinal outcomes from the psychiatrically ill who adopt an opposite sex persona.
I'm late to this party. I never heard of this Ian Copeland but he is insufferable and really not in your league intellectually. I respect your willingness to debate anybody but this guy was so far beneath you. I looked at his X feed and was shocked at how he belittles everybody's educational background yet he is so ignorant on so many topics. Really a contemptible human being and sad to see he is in the Army. Is this the kind of leaders the US Military is producing? Lord help us.
Thanks, Colin. You’re one of my favourite explainers (I’m not a scientist and I always understand you). I was struck by Copeland’s industrial-strength rudeness to you & others on Twitter. That’s just not how genuinely good faith people talk to each other, for goodness sake.
I’m also struck by the way ‘sex is on a spectrum’ seems to have embedded itself, in the US especially (I’m in the UK). A challenge is often met with accusations of bigotry.
I apologize for an ignorant question: Have there ever been a documented medical case of an intersex person who produces both types of gametes?
I’ve never seen a documented case of a human with real functional testicular tissue and ovarian tissue. There are documented cases of ovaries containing testicular tissue, but no sperm are ever generated. If the Y chromosome is mutated in the developing embryo (up to full loss) without the SRY gene in all cells, you then get into varying levels of intersex. The SRY gene is the template upon which testosterone is formed, and after 9 weeks testosterone is required to direct the genital tubercules to form male genitals, and simultaneously to block female gonads and other internal reproductive organs from forming. Depending on the level of SRY function (deletion), you get a range of intersex conditions.
You can look to Wikipedia true hermaphrodite, and it will direct you to research papers.
thanks for explaining
Copeland is a military operative and paid Pharma prostitute. He is also psychopathic and nauseating.
Incisive writing as always. Thank you for this. Will there be a video recording of your presentation?
(Also an editing note: the 3rd and 4th to last paragraphs are nearly identical versions.)
Thank you! And good catch. Sometimes I forget to remove my first draft paragraphs as I make edits. One of the worst aspects of having my own publication is not having an editor!
Sorry to repeat the OPs question, but does X archive spaces for future viewing/ripping with yt-dlp or are we reliant on people screen recording to watch it?
Thank you for making the definition of sex more precise by citing the two distinct gametes characteristic of each sex. Although xx and xy might provide a useful definition for rational people it's not sufficient for those who'd reach for any unusual condition like variations of the xx and xy genotypes to justify their deliberately bogus arguments based on wishful thinking or fraudulent propaganda. .
I provided a link to the X Space in the article, but I've posted it again below for you:
https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1rmxPMBkQZMKN?s=20
Also, I'll upload the audio and place it at the end of the post in case Copeland decides to delete the recording!
Thank you for pointing that out. I was reading while at the gym and missed the links.
I've also just embedded the audio at the end of the article. Enjoy!