Dear _________, Thank you for your many years in service to the progressive cause. However, we must now advise you that your status as a “protected minority” (or “multiple intersectional protected minorities”) has been superseded by the latest in victim groups. We regret any inconvenience this may cause to you, and we wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Signed, The Left
Dear _________, Thank you for your many years in service to the progressive cause. However, we must now advise you that your status as a “protected minority” (or “multiple intersectional protected minorities”) has been superseded by the latest in victim groups. We regret any inconvenience this may cause to you, and we wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Signed, The Left
Yes, unfortunately, in hindsight, it's not that hard to see how today's 'gender' ideology arose logically and inevitably from earlier iterations of 'feminist' ideology, specifically the use of the lie of 'social constructivism' as the basis for women's liberation. They denied biology long before any trans activist ever did. Then it was convenient, now a bitter pill.
Oops! Not factually correct. Please do more research.
Trans ideology is actually patriarchy on steroids driven by male fetishist billionaires who have weaponized women's socialization as handmaidens to convince feminists and the public that trans ideology deserves compassion and understanding . It's nothing more than oligarchs leveraging their power to destroy women's rights, parent's rights and gay rights for profit and control of the population. The propaganda campaign has been very effective. https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement
The problem is that there are several 'waves' of feminism. I'm referring to original goals of feminism which were intended to free both women and men of social constructs of gender which limits their ability to be fully independent, autonomous, self-actualized human beings with dignity and agency beyond their utility in society. THAT is what feminism is supposed to stand for. It no longer does. Or at least the most vocal proponents of feminism no longer advocate for its original goals.
The 'third wave' feminism we see today has been grotesquely distorted and co-opted by porn and sex industry to manipulate women into thinking their bodies are the only thing that really matters and convince everyone that men are nothing but sexual predators. This, too, is driven by patriarchy on steroids. Alpha males control the narrative which binds the average woman and man to stereotypes that serve the patriarchy and disempower women socially, politically, economically.
All one has to do to understand how society views women is to go to any porn site where women are verbally abused, choked, spit on, beaten, tortured and, yes, killed FOR MEN'S VIEWING PLEASURE. I dare you to read this book to find out just how diabolical the porn industry is: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Porn-Inc-Exposing-Pornography/dp/1876756896/ Women have internalized this misogyny and move through their world sensing just how much society actually despises them. Do you not see how the narrative that women are to blame for trans ideology reinforces that misogyny? Blaming the victim is the most effective way to avoid confronting the truth.
Unless and until men realize how much they've contributed to the spread of trans ideology and all of it's demonic offshoots such as pedophilia, and join radical feminists or any women who advocate for feminism's original goals, trans ideology will continue to consume our children, and society. Since these feminists have been silenced, deplatformed, smeared, censored, lost jobs and careers, threatened with rape, torture, death, you're not hearing from them. Oh, and those doing the censoring and threatening? ALMOST ALWAYS MEN.
Agreed. It would help to create solidarity around the original feminist goals. Feminism was very influential for my improved understanding of non-patriarchal but still strong and sensual masculinity that enjoyed and desire the power of women to be expressed AS women FROM women. I am a big fan of polarity on one's self and in culture but not exclusion and dichotomy. Difference is to be desired in its own right, not fetishized. Each of us has an original genius, that is enhanced by maleness and femaleness, as well as by masculinity and femininity. These have been at times demonized, because the problematic aspects were highlighted, rather than honored in such a way that the problematic aspects could be fruitfully addressed.
I don’t think there ever was a third wave of feminism, just look at that description you give. There was clearly a first and second wave, but after that, there were too many branches, different areas of research and disagreement, to say there was a distinct third wave.
Whoever those fetishist billionaires are that you speak of, they would have fully agreed with Simone de Beauvoir's "One is not born, but becomes a woman," and then Judith Butler's cementing of gender as mere 'performativity'. These became cardinal principles of second wave feminism. Is that the only determiner of today's insanity? I'm sure it isn't, but look at the support mainstream feminism gives the trans lobby as against 'TERFs' like JK Rowling. They are not being used by the 'patriarchy'. They are victims of their own delusions.
Yup. If women are identical to men (but for Social Construction) then if follows that any man can re-construct himself as a woman any time he ... sorry 'she' likes, no? And if it were to be admitted that transwoman weightlifters have an advantage, then it is the same as admitting that *men* have an advantage. The TERFS do not understand that by appealing to reality vis a vis trans, it becomes harder to dismiss reality again when it comes to 'cismen'. Hard to appeal to fantasy and reality at the same time.
I’m not sure I agree with that. I think there is a silent majority of woman who do agree with her but are afraid to be called out. Feminist saying “ biology is not destiny” was not meant to say biology doesn’t matter. But dont hold our biology against us. We can birth and have a baby and be really smart.
I agree with the hyper misogyny argument of @signmeuplease. How else do we explain the large amounts of young women who think they will be stronger if they “ become” a man?
THIS! So much THIS! It's so popular to blame feminists because it's always the woman's fault, right? As if we EVER had real power in this patriarchal system.
It may not *always* be the wiminz fault but in this case it is quite clear that the radfems are hoist by their own petards, that is certain. Hard to blame The Patriarchy when in fact The Patriarchy is coming to the aid of the TERFS -- we agree with you that men are never women.
The trans movement is a patriarchal men’s rights movement. It is diametrically opposed to feminism - it relies on gender stereotypes to define one’s identity.
On the contrary. As a card carrying Patriarch, I can assure you that from our perspective trans is the worst abomination the progressives have yet come up with. Among feminists the TERFS are a small minority, the vast majority being trans-positive. The sisterhood has betrayed actual women and there is no one they vilify more savagely than the TERFS, no?
For your own sake please don't decline our help. Whatever else we may disagree on, we Patriarchs agree with the TERFS that men are never women. Look at it this way: every girl who undergoes genital mutilation is no longer there for we Patriarchs to rape! Who wants that? Nosirreebob, when I go to rape a woman, I want a WOMAN not a man in a wig. Trust me on that.
I was trying to talk to you in your own radfem language, sorry if it didn't work. Actually, like most Patriarchs, I believe in very severe penalties for rape. And I'm not a rightie, I'm a paleo-socialist. As others have commented, it's the man hating woke radfems who have sewn the seeds of trans. But such is your hate that you can't accept our help even when we're on the same side and you blame us for the children of your own ideology. Feminism denied the very real differences between men and women, and the trannies have merely taken that doctrine to it's logical conclusion.
Um, nothing you wrote contradicts man of aran. Trans may be pushed by male fetishists, but the logic and arguments they use logically follow from those of feminism.
So is feminism. Feminists were calling gender a social construct long before trans. In any case feminists were perfectly happy to embrace post-modernism until it turned on them.
Feminism questioned gender roles but never said that gender is the ONLY thing which matters. To trans activists, all that matters is gender. In Feminism, biological reality, eg. motherhood, was ever present, and was never denied -- just questioned as a basis to limit everything else women can also do. But nice try.
Correct! It was about equal pay for equal work, violence against women (both stranger rape and DV), and the principle that "the personal is the political." The last item meant that feminists talked about and challenged power dynamics in their relationships with men. There was an affirmative action initiative around 1969 or so that resulted in increased admissions of women to jobs, grad schools, and other places where women had largely been denied entry, and men's schools like Harvard were eventually integrated.
The movement was increasingly dominated by radical lesbian activists towards the latter part of the Seventies, and there was a horrible wave of political correctness and separatism that flowered during that time. The level of policing of behavior among the women in feminist groups was the same as it is now. I don't know if the straight feminist groups were as bad, because I wasn't in them, but I would say that the radical lesbian movement of the Seventies was the incubator for the woke authoritarianism we see today.
During the Eighties, it seemed to me that the general women's movement broke down into special interests, like domestic violence and promotion of women in specific professions and unions. The feminists in academic positions became the keepers of the flame, but were basically isolated from the people and thinking that were involved in the Second Wave (1970). The postmodern nonsense got fused with feminism during the Nineties in academia, then re-entered the "public square" when young activists introduced the obscure esoteric philosophy to the normal world.
People starting pointing out that all the philosophers who developed logic, and the rest of Western philosophy, had been White men and therefore logic was racist and patriarchal.
Ooops, you may want to anticipate that you would need that logic before disposing of it in the WM dustbin. The product of your "enemy" could actually be your friend.
neither of the above two takes are correct. It is somewhere in the middle. Everyone, please: Just try to be a good person. That is all you can do. Yes, there are some roots of the current problem in historical leftism. Now we can excavate it and see their mistakes. So what. and no, all TRANS people are not bad people or oligarchs. It just is not that simple.
No one said all trans people are bad. That kind of hyperbole is used by trans activists to squelch discussion of its effects on women and children. The movement is being driven by the Pritzker family, who are the very definition of Oligarchs and they pushed this through by going directly to heads of state like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama, so women were already left without legal protection before anyone knew it was happening. This is the prioritization of men's fetishes over the safety and legal rights of women.
Ah, the problem is that people don't agree on what being a "good person" means. For example, some people insist being a "good person" means using "preferred pronouns".
Ironic isn't it. By trying reasonably to argue against being trapped in traditional roles and "biology is not destiny", they predestined the takeover OF biology AND woman's role AND woman's worth (really? biological men with wigs are now "women of the year"?). This the unfortunate legacy of any reactive philosophy. Women's biology and worth as women should have been embraced together from the start and celebrated. "Our Bodies, Ourselves" indeed!
Not that I am blaming these women. Like I said, it was reasonable, but it opened the door to the opportunistic billionaires and trans-humanism noted below.
Nailed it. From BLM to the trans movement, disenfranchised groups are being used as pawns and “weaponized” by elites to transform this country from the top down.
I agree. The trans delusion also flows necessarily from the fake biological determinism and the associated politics of the promoters of homosexuality. According to their theory, every person who has ever had homosexual ideation or engages in homosexual sex is born gay. So, these totalitarians had to create conversion therapy laws to stop providers from helping people move beyond same sex attraction if they wanted to do that. These sociopaths locked us into biological determinism and punished anyone straying from that delusion. The born in the wrong body delusion followed necessarily or their gig was up.
I largely agree. It was NEVER a feminist argument to medically mutilate children. That is all on the trans-human, patriarchal, pedophile, anti-feminist trans line of "activism." To the extent that SOME feminism (i.e. essentialist feminism) bought in to or used or valorized biological determinism, failed to see that "fake biology" (medical alteration) could use their arguments to claim membership, AND then to use post-modern arguments on the other side to say that all truth is subjective so that you don't even NEED biology to claim full womanhood... just intent. There are two contradictory lines here, and neither was intended or promoted by feminism and feminists, but rather it was appropriated and warped from their, sometimes naive, commitments and philosophies.
Dear _________, Thank you for your many years in service to the progressive cause. However, we must now advise you that your status as a “protected minority” (or “multiple intersectional protected minorities”) has been superseded by the latest in victim groups. We regret any inconvenience this may cause to you, and we wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Signed, The Left
That’s priceless! Mind if I appropriate for future use, Orwell?
Be my guest, lovely lady! Just credit me (“As my friend Orwell’s Rabbit said...”) 😉
Yes, unfortunately, in hindsight, it's not that hard to see how today's 'gender' ideology arose logically and inevitably from earlier iterations of 'feminist' ideology, specifically the use of the lie of 'social constructivism' as the basis for women's liberation. They denied biology long before any trans activist ever did. Then it was convenient, now a bitter pill.
Oops! Not factually correct. Please do more research.
Trans ideology is actually patriarchy on steroids driven by male fetishist billionaires who have weaponized women's socialization as handmaidens to convince feminists and the public that trans ideology deserves compassion and understanding . It's nothing more than oligarchs leveraging their power to destroy women's rights, parent's rights and gay rights for profit and control of the population. The propaganda campaign has been very effective. https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2020/01/the-billionaires-behind-the-lgbt-movement
The problem is that there are several 'waves' of feminism. I'm referring to original goals of feminism which were intended to free both women and men of social constructs of gender which limits their ability to be fully independent, autonomous, self-actualized human beings with dignity and agency beyond their utility in society. THAT is what feminism is supposed to stand for. It no longer does. Or at least the most vocal proponents of feminism no longer advocate for its original goals.
The 'third wave' feminism we see today has been grotesquely distorted and co-opted by porn and sex industry to manipulate women into thinking their bodies are the only thing that really matters and convince everyone that men are nothing but sexual predators. This, too, is driven by patriarchy on steroids. Alpha males control the narrative which binds the average woman and man to stereotypes that serve the patriarchy and disempower women socially, politically, economically.
All one has to do to understand how society views women is to go to any porn site where women are verbally abused, choked, spit on, beaten, tortured and, yes, killed FOR MEN'S VIEWING PLEASURE. I dare you to read this book to find out just how diabolical the porn industry is: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Porn-Inc-Exposing-Pornography/dp/1876756896/ Women have internalized this misogyny and move through their world sensing just how much society actually despises them. Do you not see how the narrative that women are to blame for trans ideology reinforces that misogyny? Blaming the victim is the most effective way to avoid confronting the truth.
Unless and until men realize how much they've contributed to the spread of trans ideology and all of it's demonic offshoots such as pedophilia, and join radical feminists or any women who advocate for feminism's original goals, trans ideology will continue to consume our children, and society. Since these feminists have been silenced, deplatformed, smeared, censored, lost jobs and careers, threatened with rape, torture, death, you're not hearing from them. Oh, and those doing the censoring and threatening? ALMOST ALWAYS MEN.
Agreed. It would help to create solidarity around the original feminist goals. Feminism was very influential for my improved understanding of non-patriarchal but still strong and sensual masculinity that enjoyed and desire the power of women to be expressed AS women FROM women. I am a big fan of polarity on one's self and in culture but not exclusion and dichotomy. Difference is to be desired in its own right, not fetishized. Each of us has an original genius, that is enhanced by maleness and femaleness, as well as by masculinity and femininity. These have been at times demonized, because the problematic aspects were highlighted, rather than honored in such a way that the problematic aspects could be fruitfully addressed.
I don’t think there ever was a third wave of feminism, just look at that description you give. There was clearly a first and second wave, but after that, there were too many branches, different areas of research and disagreement, to say there was a distinct third wave.
Whoever those fetishist billionaires are that you speak of, they would have fully agreed with Simone de Beauvoir's "One is not born, but becomes a woman," and then Judith Butler's cementing of gender as mere 'performativity'. These became cardinal principles of second wave feminism. Is that the only determiner of today's insanity? I'm sure it isn't, but look at the support mainstream feminism gives the trans lobby as against 'TERFs' like JK Rowling. They are not being used by the 'patriarchy'. They are victims of their own delusions.
Yup. If women are identical to men (but for Social Construction) then if follows that any man can re-construct himself as a woman any time he ... sorry 'she' likes, no? And if it were to be admitted that transwoman weightlifters have an advantage, then it is the same as admitting that *men* have an advantage. The TERFS do not understand that by appealing to reality vis a vis trans, it becomes harder to dismiss reality again when it comes to 'cismen'. Hard to appeal to fantasy and reality at the same time.
I’m not sure I agree with that. I think there is a silent majority of woman who do agree with her but are afraid to be called out. Feminist saying “ biology is not destiny” was not meant to say biology doesn’t matter. But dont hold our biology against us. We can birth and have a baby and be really smart.
I agree with the hyper misogyny argument of @signmeuplease. How else do we explain the large amounts of young women who think they will be stronger if they “ become” a man?
That, apparently, is the answer to patriarchy...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...
Instead of challenging misogyny, just become a man, it's easier.
And oh yeah, like in Iran, it's better to transition than be the 'gay one' in the family.
THIS! So much THIS! It's so popular to blame feminists because it's always the woman's fault, right? As if we EVER had real power in this patriarchal system.
> It's so popular to blame feminists because it's always the woman's fault, right?
No need to get hysterical.
It may not *always* be the wiminz fault but in this case it is quite clear that the radfems are hoist by their own petards, that is certain. Hard to blame The Patriarchy when in fact The Patriarchy is coming to the aid of the TERFS -- we agree with you that men are never women.
The trans movement is a patriarchal men’s rights movement. It is diametrically opposed to feminism - it relies on gender stereotypes to define one’s identity.
On the contrary. As a card carrying Patriarch, I can assure you that from our perspective trans is the worst abomination the progressives have yet come up with. Among feminists the TERFS are a small minority, the vast majority being trans-positive. The sisterhood has betrayed actual women and there is no one they vilify more savagely than the TERFS, no?
For your own sake please don't decline our help. Whatever else we may disagree on, we Patriarchs agree with the TERFS that men are never women. Look at it this way: every girl who undergoes genital mutilation is no longer there for we Patriarchs to rape! Who wants that? Nosirreebob, when I go to rape a woman, I want a WOMAN not a man in a wig. Trust me on that.
Your comments about patriarchy and rape are disgusting, and show why the Right is being so easily dismissed in its views on this and other issues.
I was trying to talk to you in your own radfem language, sorry if it didn't work. Actually, like most Patriarchs, I believe in very severe penalties for rape. And I'm not a rightie, I'm a paleo-socialist. As others have commented, it's the man hating woke radfems who have sewn the seeds of trans. But such is your hate that you can't accept our help even when we're on the same side and you blame us for the children of your own ideology. Feminism denied the very real differences between men and women, and the trannies have merely taken that doctrine to it's logical conclusion.
Um, nothing you wrote contradicts man of aran. Trans may be pushed by male fetishists, but the logic and arguments they use logically follow from those of feminism.
So is feminism. Feminists were calling gender a social construct long before trans. In any case feminists were perfectly happy to embrace post-modernism until it turned on them.
Feminism questioned gender roles but never said that gender is the ONLY thing which matters. To trans activists, all that matters is gender. In Feminism, biological reality, eg. motherhood, was ever present, and was never denied -- just questioned as a basis to limit everything else women can also do. But nice try.
Feminists did their best to minimize the role of sex as much as possible. Trans is just that process taken to its completion.
Wrong, absolutely wrong. You just don’t like feminism, and like a lot of men, don’t know anything about it.
Everything I said follows from what you said. You just don't like my phrasing because it makes clear implications you wish to avoid.
Correct! It was about equal pay for equal work, violence against women (both stranger rape and DV), and the principle that "the personal is the political." The last item meant that feminists talked about and challenged power dynamics in their relationships with men. There was an affirmative action initiative around 1969 or so that resulted in increased admissions of women to jobs, grad schools, and other places where women had largely been denied entry, and men's schools like Harvard were eventually integrated.
The movement was increasingly dominated by radical lesbian activists towards the latter part of the Seventies, and there was a horrible wave of political correctness and separatism that flowered during that time. The level of policing of behavior among the women in feminist groups was the same as it is now. I don't know if the straight feminist groups were as bad, because I wasn't in them, but I would say that the radical lesbian movement of the Seventies was the incubator for the woke authoritarianism we see today.
During the Eighties, it seemed to me that the general women's movement broke down into special interests, like domestic violence and promotion of women in specific professions and unions. The feminists in academic positions became the keepers of the flame, but were basically isolated from the people and thinking that were involved in the Second Wave (1970). The postmodern nonsense got fused with feminism during the Nineties in academia, then re-entered the "public square" when young activists introduced the obscure esoteric philosophy to the normal world.
> Back then it was about wage equality more than anything else
Yes, and they were making a distinction between sex and gender to argue for allowing women into traditionally male-only professions.
People starting pointing out that all the philosophers who developed logic, and the rest of Western philosophy, had been White men and therefore logic was racist and patriarchal.
Ooops, you may want to anticipate that you would need that logic before disposing of it in the WM dustbin. The product of your "enemy" could actually be your friend.
More of a chicken or egg thing I suspect. As there was a construct already available to be utilized and exploited.
neither of the above two takes are correct. It is somewhere in the middle. Everyone, please: Just try to be a good person. That is all you can do. Yes, there are some roots of the current problem in historical leftism. Now we can excavate it and see their mistakes. So what. and no, all TRANS people are not bad people or oligarchs. It just is not that simple.
No one said all trans people are bad. That kind of hyperbole is used by trans activists to squelch discussion of its effects on women and children. The movement is being driven by the Pritzker family, who are the very definition of Oligarchs and they pushed this through by going directly to heads of state like Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama, so women were already left without legal protection before anyone knew it was happening. This is the prioritization of men's fetishes over the safety and legal rights of women.
that was signmeuplease, above. Poor reply.
> Just try to be a good person.
Ah, the problem is that people don't agree on what being a "good person" means. For example, some people insist being a "good person" means using "preferred pronouns".
Ironic isn't it. By trying reasonably to argue against being trapped in traditional roles and "biology is not destiny", they predestined the takeover OF biology AND woman's role AND woman's worth (really? biological men with wigs are now "women of the year"?). This the unfortunate legacy of any reactive philosophy. Women's biology and worth as women should have been embraced together from the start and celebrated. "Our Bodies, Ourselves" indeed!
Not that I am blaming these women. Like I said, it was reasonable, but it opened the door to the opportunistic billionaires and trans-humanism noted below.
Nailed it. From BLM to the trans movement, disenfranchised groups are being used as pawns and “weaponized” by elites to transform this country from the top down.
I agree. The trans delusion also flows necessarily from the fake biological determinism and the associated politics of the promoters of homosexuality. According to their theory, every person who has ever had homosexual ideation or engages in homosexual sex is born gay. So, these totalitarians had to create conversion therapy laws to stop providers from helping people move beyond same sex attraction if they wanted to do that. These sociopaths locked us into biological determinism and punished anyone straying from that delusion. The born in the wrong body delusion followed necessarily or their gig was up.
I largely agree. It was NEVER a feminist argument to medically mutilate children. That is all on the trans-human, patriarchal, pedophile, anti-feminist trans line of "activism." To the extent that SOME feminism (i.e. essentialist feminism) bought in to or used or valorized biological determinism, failed to see that "fake biology" (medical alteration) could use their arguments to claim membership, AND then to use post-modern arguments on the other side to say that all truth is subjective so that you don't even NEED biology to claim full womanhood... just intent. There are two contradictory lines here, and neither was intended or promoted by feminism and feminists, but rather it was appropriated and warped from their, sometimes naive, commitments and philosophies.